Mindy Todd, the host and producer of The Point on WCAI which examines critical issues for Cape Cod and the Islands hosts this episode focusing on the social and emotional aspects of learning.
Schools are seeing a significant increase in the number of children with social and emotional challenges, often manifesting in disruptive behavior. Think:Kids is a program developed at the Department of Psychiatry at Mass General Hospital to train parents and educators to work cooperatively with children to solve behavior issues. On The Point, we talk with one of the architects of the Think Kids program, and adjustment counselors at local school districts who have initiated the training.
Here is a list of the guests on this program:
As our kids and educators return to school this year, we are confronting the reality that this year (which we had all hoped would provide a return to normal) isn’t looking so normal at all. Kids are headed out of their homes and into actual school buildings this fall, some of whom haven’t been inside a school in over 500 days. Still, that progress comes with the risks of exposure to the Delta variant for kids and educators alike, especially our youngest and unvaccinated students. Both kids and adults enter new school years with anxiety and uncertainty; this year, they are also carrying the effects of this past year with them, which for some include tremendous loss and trauma. To state the obvious, stressed students and stressed educators make for little learning.
How might all this cumulative stress and anxiety manifest itself this year in our classrooms? Last year during remote learning, disengagement replaced disruptive behavior as the most common challenge facing our educators. Unfortunately, this year, we can expect to see more of both—disengaged students and disruptive students. In the face of these different flavors of challenging behavior, we need to resist the temptation to resort to traditional discipline, which exacerbates the problem by adding stress. Rather, we need to remember that challenging behavior at times like this is simply the downstream effect (or symptom) of trouble accessing skills due to chronic stress. In other words, we need to remember that it’s about skill, not will! Right now, the world is throwing a lot at our kids, their teachers, and parents too. Ironically, it is hardest for us to access the skills that help us tolerate anxiety, frustration, and uncertainty in times of stress like this.
Now more than ever then, we need to stay true to the grounding philosophy of our work at Think:Kids—the notion that students do well if they can—and so do educators! We are all doing the best we can to handle what the world throws at us with the skills we have at our disposal at that time. So let’s go easy on each other and ourselves and, most importantly, practice empathy. Empathy means working hard to understand what someone else is experiencing, what they are thinking and feeling.
How can we all practice empathy in the midst of a busy day, especially when we are stressed ourselves?
Stopping to take the time to learn what’s going for someone else is a challenge at school, where time is too scarce. But it might just be the most important way to spend our time this fall because empathy is calming, and no one teaches or learns effectively when anxious and stressed.
This article originally appeared on Psychology Today.
References
Ablon, JS, Pollastri, AR. The School Discipline Fix: Changing Behavior using Collaborative Problem Solving. New York: Norton; 2018.
Perry BD, Ablon JS. (2019) CPS as a Neurodevelopmentally Sensitive and Trauma-Informed Approach. In: Pollastri A., Ablon J., Hone M. (eds) Collaborative Problem Solving. Current Clinical Psychiatry. Springer, Cham
A panel of Collaborative Problem Solving experts, with personal experience as parents and educators, talk about how we can prepare for Back-to-School in the context of COVID-19. Recorded September 1, 2020.
Dr. J. Stuart Albon: Good afternoon, folks, or good morning still, to those on the west coast. Thank you for joining us for what is, at this point, planned to be our last CPS Chat. I have to say I have really enjoyed this opportunity to connect with people in our community here at Think:Kids and folks who are broadly interested in supporting kids and families who struggle with behavioral challenges.
So today, very aptly, on September 1st [2020], is our back-to-school focus. I’m going to introduce our panelists here and set the stage for this conversation. For us to get going, so if I could, please ask Ben, and Hallie, and Lucas if you all want to turn your video on so folks can see you as well; thank you. There you all are.
Thanks for joining us. Let me make a few introductions. Ben Stich and Hallie Carpenter are members of our staff at Think:Kids who are not only talented trainers and coaches but serve all kinds of other roles in the organization, including notably Ben overseeing our Certification program. And Lucas Vincent, who is joining us, is a participant and a graduate of that program as he is certified in Collaborative Problem Solving. Well done, Lucas. I think that there are a few things that we all share here with the panelists. But first, let me just say a little bit more about Lucas, who’s joining us from McMinnville High School out in Oregon who, as I understand, has been the lead teacher in their Social-Emotional Growth classroom. And you’ve been working with students who struggle with their behavior for more than a decade now.
In addition to his work with these kids, he also shares what Ben and Hallie, and I share here, which is also having children of our own who are heading back to school in this very crazy and uncertain environment. Lucas has two active elementary school-age boys, and so he and his wife are navigating it from that side of the fence, if you will, as well. I know personally for me I’ve got three kids. And my family’s sort of a study unto itself because for our three kids, we have each one of the scenarios we have one kid who is completely remote, one kid who is there in person, and one kid who’s got the hybrid two days there three, days remote. So, we sort of run the gamut within my own family. So, I hope that we will all be able to foster a dialogue both when it comes to the professional angle on this and the parent angle on this.
So for our attendees, if you haven’t been to one of our CPS Chats so far, what we like to do is I’m going to kick off the conversation and start asking some questions to Ben and Hallie and Lucas, and just get the conversation going. As you all are listening and thinking about the things on your mind, please use the Q/A function to type in any questions or comments, or areas you would like us to touch on. After about 15-20 minutes of discussion or so, we’ll start making our way through all of those questions in hopes of getting to all of them or at least as many as possible. But don’t hesitate at any point to type in any comment or question; sometimes, we’ll just sort of take a break in the action and go right to them. I’m hoping this is going to be as much a dialogue with the attendees as it is a dialogue with my co-hosts here. As I take a quick scan of our attendee list, and I know that we’ve got some people who’ve joined already who have a wealth of experience at the leadership level when it comes to navigating challenges in the school environment in districts that we’ve worked with so I’m hoping we hear from our attendees as well. And the last thing I’ll say before kicking it off is that we do record these. So, we’re glad to say that we found these chats reach many, many, many more people after the fact. Folks who are not able to join us live, not surprisingly, because many people are dealing right now with the things we’re going to be talking about today. So, this will be available; we’ll send out a link on social media and other ways so that people can listen in at any point.
So, without further ado, let’s get to the topic at hand. I got to say this heading into this crazy school year; I think in many ways this is a school year that calls out for Collaborative Problem Solving more than any other school year. Because my goodness is everybody, kids, educators, parents, being asked to display skills related to flexibility, frustration tolerance, and problem-solving like we have never before. But as we’ve talked about on some of these other CPS Chats, one of the sad ironies is during the chronic stress of a pandemic like this, our ability to access our skills is much more limited. So right when we need those skills the most, it’s harder for us all to access those skills. And to make it worse, if you’re interacting with somebody else who’s feeling chronically stressed and having a hard time accessing those skills. What we say is “dysregulation breeds dysregulation,” and pretty soon, everybody can have a hard time doing their best. Many who know our work know our mantra is Kids Do Well if They Can, Teachers Do Well if They Can, Parents Do Well if They Can. We’re all doing the best we can to handle these circumstances. But this is tough. This is a tough time right now. So, we’re hoping to provide some guidance to folks and some assistance.
I thought I’d start asking you all, Ben, Hallie, and Lucas, about just backing up a little and talking about expectations coming into this very uncertain school year. This is a school year that maybe we tested the waters a little bit at the end of last school year. But if anybody can even remember back then, this is going to look very different. Does anybody want to chime in a little bit about the importance of expectation setting and communicating? Here I’m talking about both at home and school, and I’m curious if people have any thoughts on this topic.
Ben Stich: I’m happy to jump in first. I mean, my thought is it’s critical, and I’m sure that goes without saying, and that’s why you led there, Stuart. I think it’s really important for parents and teachers to step back and rethink the expectations they have for themselves, their kids, and their students because it’s a completely different set of demands and circumstances and context for which these kids are going to be learning. I think about my brother’s family a lot; there’s three kids, nine, seven, and two. They’re all from home; some of them have some learning difficulties. They’re working from home. There’s a two-year-old running around, wants to get on every device. What are realistic expectations for what the kids can do? I think a lot about kids with significant difficulties with cognitive flexibility. I think making sure that expectations are flexible, based on whatever the needs are of the kids is it’s going to be pretty essential. And very difficult right because there’s this negotiation that happens between parents, parents’ desire to meet teacher expectations themselves at the school, and the district has of them the challenge the district has to meet the expectations of an IEP, for example. I think the big picture is it’s essential to step back and think about what are realistic expectations how can we teach those expectations to the kids and not just thinking about the kids’ skills but the parents’ skills and their ability to deliver. I have a set of parents I’m working with right now where they keep creating expectations they love but aren’t realistic. Not about the kids’ ability to meet them, but about the parents’ ability to set them, remind them, reinforce them, remember them when they’re distracted with work. And so, the work with that particular family is not about Plan B right now; it’s about thinking about expectations.
Stuart: So just for folks who are sort of newer to our work Ben when he’s using the term Plan B, he’s using a sort of code for collaborating to solve a problem, whether that’s with a kid or a teacher. And what you’re saying, Ben is even before we talk about collaborating to solve problems, we’ve got to be clear about what the expectations are in the first place. And one of the things I’m struck by, and I’d love to hear Lucas and Hallie’s thoughts about this, is the beginning of the school year in any classroom is always about expectation setting because these are new kids to you, and your class is new to them. And I found particularly at the early ages when expectations are set the most effectively if they are done a little bit collaboratively. In other words, if your expectations are things that you’re imposing upon a kid or kids, you’re setting it up for some trouble in the beginning. Whereas if the expectations are set jointly, together collaboratively, then when an expectation isn’t met, it’s not just the teacher’s problem or the parent’s problem because it’s your expectation. Now there’s some joint ownership around this, and I’d love to hear others thinking on this front.
Hallie Carpenter: Actually, I’m glad you brought that up, Stuart, because I was thinking about that as Ben was talking about expectations because I’ve been trying to think back to what spring was like, and we really had like these fluid expectations that were happening because we’re trying to figure out what’s happening all the time. And I think one of the mistakes that I made is that I wasn’t very clear at articulating and like in a way that my kids could understand those expectations. And so I was thinking about this fall and starting school. I sat down with them and had a conversation with them about how the spring went and how there were some things that were kind of hard. We did have a nice discussion about what expectations or what things were important to us as a family to be figuring out what’s going to work best for them and also what’s going to work best for me and my spouse, who are both working at home in those same hours. And it’s really amazing. Sometimes you forget what amazing insights kids have. If you just talk to them, so even some of the things that my incoming kindergartner five-year-old came up with, I was like, oh wow, that’s a really good idea for what we should do. And I think it gets a little bit more buy-in honestly from them about being able to then meet the expectations because we talked about it, and we had a discussion around it. I think it’s really nice when we can do that even with the younger kids who sometimes we think, oh well, they can’t engage in a discussion around that, but they can surprise us sometimes around that.
Lucas Vincent: To piggyback off of you guys, I also think it allows them to have more of an understanding of what the expectations are if they’re bought into it. They’ve had the conversation; they’re going to really understand them a lot better. With everything’s shifting and moving so fast over the like the past several months, it’s hard to keep up with it if you’re not really involved in it.
Stuart: Well said. So I think part of the theme I’m hearing is that the more you cultivate engagement and co-authorship right from the beginning of what this new school year is going to look like, the more you protect against there being sort of problems as you as you get going.
Okay, so let’s talk about let’s say you’ve got your expectations set as clearly as you can they’re going to be so many problems this fall when it comes to people meeting expectations. And I say people because I mean all of us, I don’t just mean the kids; I mean us, parents, because of all we’re juggling at the same time and the teachers as well. So, I’m interested in sort of shifting into that area, and I’ll kick it off by saying this that I have been impressed throughout the pandemic and actually through the pandemics, I guess one could say how much advice there has been out there about how to talk to kids. and don’t get me wrong I think it’s extreme extremely helpful for us to know how to talk to kids, but one of the things I found is that the more guidance we adults have for how to talk to kids, the more we talk. and not just to kids but at kids and it’s great to have the stuff to say, but if we have it, we’re going to use it, and I think one of the things that is often missing is how to listen to kids. and honestly how to listen to parents, and how to listen to educators as well because to understand know how to solve a problem you got to understand what the problem is all about. and that’s I think going to be at a premium this fall is how do we listen to one another to understand each other’s experiences. So you all the three of you have a great deal of experience using Collaborative Problem Solving in your own homes, in schools; talk to me a little about how we can help people who are attending to approach problems when they arise in this new environment this fall.
Lucas: I’ll go ahead and Stuart, please as an educator uh working with parents obviously with students who struggle significantly I’ve offered kind of a resource like being able to work sometimes instead of working on their schoolwork let’s talk about what’s going on in the home how can we help support you in different ways. Because of what we do, typically with like my special ed part, I would be giving instruction in the classroom, and that’s been cut down significantly because of the way we are doing school now. , my special ed services in my mind parents benefit, students benefit, from me being able to provide Plan B conversations over Zoom and things like that. Allowing them opportunities to actually get more access to us and get more access to that problem-solving and the skill building that takes place.
Stuart: And Lucas, you’re bringing up something that may be my biggest concern heading into the fall. When I think about our work with schools, you know we’re teaching people a lot how to do this thing again you refer to Plan B, this Collaborative Problem Solving thing, where you listen hard to the other person, you express your concerns, not your solution, and you invite collaboration to figure out how to solve a problem in a mutually satisfactory way. One of the things that it hinges on is the opportunity to do it. And pre-pandemic I think it’s the biggest question any teacher has coming out of our training is “I love this, sounds great. But, how do I make the time to do Plan B? Even it’s just a few minutes, how do I find that time to have even especially a one-on-one conversation?” Now I think there are lots of opportunities to do Group Plan B even in a fully remote environment. But grabbing a few minutes to connect with a kid individually is absolutely critical in my mind, and I’m really worried about the diminished opportunity to do that this school year. And I’ve been sort of encouraging a lot of schools I work with to think about what’s that going to look like? How are you going to do this on remote days? Or, if you’re fully remote, what’s that going to look like? And I wonder other people’s thoughts about this particular challenge.
Lucas: I think one of the ways that I’ve gone around it for me is trying to schedule office hours and letting the parents know, letting the students know hey when we need to if you need to connect, or these are the times that we’re going to connect. I think you have to be purposeful about building it in because otherwise, it really won’t happen.
Ben: There’s no question that creativity needs to come into play. I know some high school teachers, for example, they’ll text their students or use email, and while it’s not the same kind of organic natural flow of a conversation, there are still questions, there are still answers, there’s still kind of engagement. So, I think there are creative ways of doing it that way. And from a parent’s perspective, I’d like to jump on the Group B bandwagon a little bit. I think there are opportunities if they’re siblings and in the home, to have family meetings daily, weekly, because I think when you participate in this problem-solving process, one of the risks is thinking, okay we’re going to talk about this problem like logging on time or getting your homework done, or whatever and the problem you have a solution it doesn’t work. There’s a risk that it’s a static process where, okay, we tried to problem solve it didn’t work, so now what do we do? Versus looking at problem-solving is just a process. It’s a continual process where we’re going to have a conversation we’re going to then check-in in a few days the family is we’re going to figure out if it’s working. Then we’ll make some adjustments, and hey, what else is hard about this and being curious about what the kids’ experiences are. The group process can be very effective and can address some of that time challenge, especially if you bake it into time that you might be together already, like a meal or right before watching a movie on Friday night while you’re eating pizza. And whatever it is that your family traditions might be. And I do hope it.
I’ve been curious. I mean, I want to give Hallie a chance here, but I do think something worth noting is also really working hard, and this is hard, and I can tell you it’s been hard is stemming from the impulse to know what’s going on for the kid for your child or for your student. I’ve been so surprised that when I think I know why a child is having difficulty logging in or engaging with their classmate or responding to their teacher, sometimes I’m right but more often not the reason something was so far removed from my radar. And to your point that you mentioned earlier, Stuart, until you know what the concerns are, what’s going on for the child, it’s really hard to solve for it.
Stuart: Right. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked the question, “what do I do when my kid isn’t engaging in their remote work?” And my quick answer to that is, I have absolutely no idea what to do. And the reason I have absolutely no idea is because I don’t know why yet. And there’s myriad reasons a kid won’t. What we try to embrace in Collaborative Problem Solving is that we may not be so happy that they’re not logging on, but you know what? I bet there’s probably a good reason, and I suggest for teachers and for parents that’s the leading, that’s the lead into this conversation, “Hey, I’ve noticed you haven’t been logging on. I’m sure there’s a good reason why, and I just want to understand what that’s about.” And to Ben’s earlier point, man, you’ll be surprised how many different versions of concerns there are that all lead to the same endpoint of I’m checking out when it comes to this remote learn Hallie jump in, please.
Hallie: Well, I have a perfect example related to that, and it’s like you couldn’t have set it up better, but I was thinking about I had almost this exact same conversation. It’s almost like we worked together. This last spring with my, let’s see he was a second-grader, and he was not wanting to log into his Zoom whole class meetings, and I was like, oh he just wants to rush through get his all work done so he can play, and so those are my like initial assumptions and thoughts that came up. And like you said, we found little moments in which to have the conversation in chunks. He loves food, so we had started it at breakfast; we didn’t quite finish the conversation. I said, “Hey, I just really noticed that it seems hard to log into your whole group Zoom meetings. Can you tell me what’s going on?” We got a little bit going there, and it ended up being totally off of my radar for what I thought the concern would be is that when he saw all the kids on the Zoom call, it made him really miss his friends, and so it made him feel sad because he was seeing them and wanted to have like some one-on-one time like he had had in the classroom with them. And so I was like, whoa, that really challenged a lot of assumptions that I had, and also that’s a concern that I have too is that he’s not getting that social interaction with his friends. And so, we were able to come up with a solution to connect find some other times to connect with friends in different avenues so he could have some of that one-on-one time. It still made it hard right when he was logging in to his Zoom meeting still had some of those feelings, but and we continued to kind of talk through those as we went through, but I got a better understanding had a lot more compassion for what he was going through and experiencing and had a better understanding about how to support him in some other ways. And really felt this stronger connection with him throughout the process. And again, it wasn’t this one static sit down conversation with him, but rather it was something that kind of happened over time, and each time we talked, we got a little bit more information, or we got a little deeper into it because I think he had some different insights as well into it. And so, anytime I have these interactions with my own children or children in schools, I feel like I learn something new right you come away with some new type of opportunity of learning well with them so.
Ben: I really appreciate that we have some mantras at Think:Kids, “be prepared to be surprised,” “be curious, not furious,” and I think of another family I worked with where the child also was refused to log on. The issue was that they saw another student in their classroom chat something mean to another student and they were scared that they would be bullied or be on the receiving end of something mean. And the parents were convinced that do with curriculum or the teacher or being too tired or not getting to bed at the right time or whatever it might be. And to me that also helped in segues to another point which is, I think the increasing demand to collaborate between family and school. Right so, in an example like that, the parents can do a wonderful job of understanding what the concerns are, but there are limitations to how they can solve for it right without the teacher’s involvement.
Stuart: Yeah, and I used to, before the pandemic, I think one of the things we all dealt with was challenges with kids meeting expectations around homework, and one of the things I counseled every family I worked with and teacher was if it’s a homework issue there’s got to be collaboration across home and school. Because it’s supposed to be done at home, but it’s assigned at school, so there’s a whole bunch of people involved here and understanding where the breakdown is and what might be going wrong. Well, actually, now if it’s remote learning like school, all of the school is in that position. And so, I think you’re absolutely right that the need for communication and collaboration across school and homes just it’s extraordinary right now. And, of course, educators, I mean time to use the restroom and grab a quick bite to eat during the day forget to do anything else while you’re trying to teach the curriculum. So how do we afford those opportunities so that teachers can be communicating? Because all of a sudden their class, their colleague in the classroom is now 35 parents who are out there in their homes, and so that’s an extraordinary challenge, I think. And it does, by the way, point out uh something you said, Ben which is the need for incredible creativity here in terms of how we’re going to do this. And I want to actually bring up one great creative example a charter network in the Boston area that we work with kicking off the school year. One of the things they’ve started to do is trying to work their schedule rework their schedule because, of course, the schedules are entirely reworked to figure out how they could have another adult popping into Zoom classrooms, and then if something’s happening and you literally see a kid disengaging, some issue going on, they’ll invite that student to a zoom breakout right then and there one-on-one. So, you’re able to quickly say, hey, I’ve noticed that you turned your video off, and you’ve been off well, don’t worry, you’re not in trouble, but what’s going on? Everything okay? Just checking in with you. And so that’s one creative Zoom use of trying to connect one on one, but clearly, we’re going to need a lot of other creative ways to communicate, to collaborate, and I guess the other thing is to build a relationship. Right, I mean, we haven’t said this yet, but like, what does this all rest on? This all rests on relationship building. And how do you do that? Especially in a largely virtual environment, and even if you’re in person, by the way, with half your face covered, trying to stay far away from one another and everybody on edge. It is hard enough there to create a relationship.
Let me see here, folks, we’ve got uh some things coming into our Q&A here that I think I’d like to pivot to a little bit here, so one question is: “How we would engage with a school that refuses to implement an IEP for your kid when she really needs one? They say homework’s not a school issue when it is, and that’s when she has the most troubles with her anger and aggression.” So, this tough question. I guess I’ll be interested to hear others’ perspectives here. I shared my bias a few minutes ago that I believe everybody does the best they can, even schools. And what I mean by that is, just like if a kid’s refusing to do something, I take the perspective of let me understand their concerns. If a school’s refusing quote-unquote to do something, that’s what I’m interested in understanding too. What’s their perspective on the role of an IEP here? But I would also add that I got to tell you, I’ve worked with kids who’ve had tremendous IEPs, the best IEPs in the world, and they haven’t been implemented well, so it doesn’t matter. And I’ve worked with kids who don’t even have a 504 plan of any shape or kind, and they get incredible assistance because the educators really know who the kid is, what they’re struggling with, and how to help. So I would say to you sort of less about, and I know there are legal protections and coverage here but less about the IEP and more about can we help the school to understand why she is having such trouble with her anger and aggression when it comes to homework. And it’s important to remember that sometimes in schools it’s very hard for us in a school to understand what might be happening at home because kids will look totally different at school than they do at home. I can’t tell you how many educators I’ve said, wow, you’re working with this family; why do they have a psychologist involved? She’s like the easiest kid; she’s delightful; she’s a class leader. And I say, oh well, that’s funny. I don’t think her parents would describe her that way. And by the way, it happens in the reverse as well angel at home trouble at school. Why is that? Home and school are completely different places with totally different demands. Now, of course, in the remote environment, they’ve got similar demands too. But anyways. Lucas, Hallie, Ben, I don’t know if anybody else wants to chime in on this question here at all well.
Hallie: I was thinking, I mean you’ve made a lot of really great points, Stuart. One of the things I was kind of thinking about along those lines that’s been helpful sometimes when we come into situations where we feel like from a school setting, we’re looking at things totally different than the home setting right where we’ve kind of got these dueling solutions that are out there. Because oftentimes what happens is people come to the table with two sets of solutions, and we try to talk through the solutions, and behind each of those really are valid concerns, right? Really good concerns, and if we can take the time to break it down a little bit and really truly address or find out what the concerns are behind them, behind those solutions, oftentimes we come up with more mutually satisfactory types of solutions. And sometimes we realize that we’re actually coming at things from the same place but in a different way. And so, I think one of the things that has sometimes been helpful is to work on completing a CPS Assessment together right and to look at and examine what are the behaviors that we’re seeing across home and school. What are the specific situations that we notice are really challenging for the youth at home and at school? And what are some of those lagging skills that are behind it? And sometimes, that can get us to a place where we can come up with an action plan for what we want to do or how we want to move forward with some solutions. And so, as much as we are able to team together to do that process or some sort of process to examine things a little deeper, I think that can be helpful too.
Ben: I think the other thing I would add, and again I want to acknowledge what you said, Stuart, is that there are certainly legal implications of compliance with an IEP. It is perhaps for the family to identify who has the best relationship with their child. Regardless of whether or not it’s the team chairperson is in charge of the IEP process or the school administrator, it could be a paraprofessional; it could be the special ed teacher. It could be a general education teacher, but I think perhaps one option is to explore the conversation with them first because those are people who really understand their child who might be able to hear their, the parents’, concerns and work together to try to think through how best to meet their child’s needs. I’ve seen a lot of success with that, really leveraging relationships. As you said earlier that everything rests on the quality of relationships.
Stuart: Yeah, yep. Well, and I think one of the other things I’m hearing from both of you is, when possible here the importance of being as proactive as possible. And we did have a little bit of a window into what things might look like at the tail end of last school year. And so if your child, if your student, was struggling in particular ways then, it would be a pretty good bet that it might be trouble again this fall. And so that’s the importance of a teacher communicating to their colleague who this kid is coming into their class. What did you see in the remote learning environment? But as parents, also if we have concerns about how our kids were able to engage, getting ahead of that. And as Hallie said, also if you look through the lens of “skill not will,” which is what we try to do here at Think:Kids, and see that when kids are struggling or anybody for that matter, it’s more likely a struggle with skill instead of a lack of will to do better. If you look through that lens and keep in mind what are the skills that your child struggles with that are making it even harder right now, getting ahead of that and helping your teacher, your kid’s teacher, to know that this is an area of growth for them that we’re expecting is going to be a challenge. It is going to increase empathy right from the beginning and help teachers to be more proactive.
Ben: And teachers usually tremendously appreciate that kind of communication for families. I hear that universally.
Stuart: So we got another question coming in here which is: “How do we suggest Plan B-ing,” and again we’ve got the lingo here, so that’s shorthand for how do we suggest collaborating to solve “doing school remotely,” which is that’s a big question, Deborah Ann. But she’s saying, bring teachers and parents together is challenging remotely, as we’ve been saying. Homework used to be a big issue, but what I read your comment/question here saying is teachers are understandably, as they should, trying to pursue a whole host of expectations. When for some kids, just the fact that they are showing up online is a success. And how do we try to? These are my words, not hers, not sweat the small stuff. So, for instance, if a kid shows up in PJs as opposed to more serious attire, we might not like it, but we’re happy they’re there. And, I think first of all, since we are talking to a lot of educators here, even before we talk about how to collaborate to solve a problem, one of the things we talk about is prioritizing. Just deciding what are you working on and what are you not working on. And in the middle of a pandemic, with the most unusual start to a school year, I think there’s a lot of things that we need to decide. You know what? Maybe those used to be important. They’re not so important right now. And I would put PJs on that list in my book, and it’s not to say, if you’re there in person, I actually think what kids look like does matter. It does show a certain appreciation for the importance of the learning environment. But if we’re just hoping that kid’s going to show up. You know what? I’d rather have them there in PJs than not there at all. And so, people familiar with Collaborative Problem Solving, that’s what we mean is use Plan C. Decide proactively I’m not taking up the PJ thing, just happy they’re there. Now, if the year gets going and they’re there a bunch, and things are cooking, and you want to address the PJ thing, then you bring that back, and you decide to take that on collaboratively. But Deborah Ann’s question is also “how do you talk to the teachers about this?” And before I open this up to the group, the one thing I want to say is remember the most important piece of Collaborative Problem Solving its empathy. Right? I mean, Teachers Do Well if They Can. Teachers are not trying to get our kids to wear something other than their PJs because they want to cause trouble. No, they’re just trying to pursue good expectations, and if you think we need to prioritize a little bit differently, start with empathy not for your kid, but empathy, in this case, for your teacher. And understand their perspective and concern first before you share yours. And that’ll get the conversation going. So my fellow panelists here, anything to add when it comes to addressing Deborah Ann’s question here?
Ben: You kind of said what I was thinking. Yeah, it’s the same lead-in, right? “Hey, I noticed that the kids not wearing PJs seems really important for your class. I’m kind of confused by that. Can you help me understand it?” Right? And then understanding the teacher’s perspective and then sharing your concern. Like, “well, really, it’s been so hard to get my child to participate. It’s actually creating a lot of conflict and making it harder for them to learn.” Whatever the parent’s concerns.
Stuart: So, the Plan B you’re doing is actually is the parent with the teacher, okay. Now some might be saying, “oh wait a sec, so you’re saying I actually use Plan B on the teacher?”
Ben: No, with the teacher.
Stuart: And that’s what I would say, is no you don’t use Plan B on anyone folks it’s not some special technique that use surreptitiously. No, you collaborate with them, and by the way, it’s okay for them to know that’s what you’re doing. But notice what Ben said; you start with their concern, as opposed to starting with yours. Here’s what starting with yours looks like, “hey, I just don’t think that it’s important that my kid be wearing something other than their PJs. And I think we should just be happy that he showed up, and so I really think it would be good if you were to just lay off for the PJs.” Right? What happens if you’re the teacher? You feel disrespected, you start to get dysregulated, and collaboration goes out the window. If however, you say, “hey it seems like him not being his PJs is important, and I bet there’s a very good reason because this is this is important that they show up at school and take this seriously.” Right? “So, I just wanted to touch base with you about that.” What are you doing? You’re regulating that teacher through empathy. And by the way, teachers, it’s the same exact thing when we’re saying how do you talk to a parent who has who’s upset about something start by regulating them before you’re going to share your concern. All right, Deborah Ann, I hope that’s helpful there.
Hallie: All right, can I add on that too?
Stuart: Of course, Hallie, please.
Hallie: Well, I think one of the also things that we think about too with Plan B that’s so important is building relationships. Right? And we’re talking about not only building strong relationships with but also creating those strong bonds and relationships with other adults. Which is equally important if we think about moving forward in working because part of the success of educating our kids is having strong relationships with families, right? We know that that creates really good outcomes, and so this process of utilizing collaborative problem solving helps to build relationships amongst everyone. And so it’s equally important to use it with adults as it is with kids.
Stuart: Thank you. All right, if anyone has any other questions or topics they would like us to address in the closing minutes here, I would invite you to type those in the Q&A, and in the meantime, if not, I’m going to encourage each of our panelists just to share any last words of wisdom, anything that you would suggest people keep in mind when it comes to this very challenging year ahead so if anyone wants to chime in with some final thoughts for the group here.
Hallie: One of the things I’ve been thinking about a lot lately and in my role as a parent and working in schools and working with people in different places is how we apply this model to ourselves as well. So, we can be very hard on ourselves and if we can go back to that philosophy of People Do Well if They Can, it means I’m Doing Well if I Can. And have more compassion for ourselves and recognize that we are in a challenging situation and that our skills are going to be stressed right now. And so, how do we apply? Perhaps we need to Plan C, let go of expectations for ourselves as well in the multiple hats and roles that we serve. And that when we can also do that for ourselves, we’re also going to see things improve for everyone around us. So that’s been my mantra lately.
Stuart: Yes, very well said Hallie, thanks for I think that’s phenomenal advice. Ben, looks like you’re going to chime in next?
Ben: Yeah, so to piggyback off that, Hallie just talked a lot about the philosophy that Kids Do Well if They Can, People Do Well if They Can, that We Are All Doing the Best We Can and the idea of problem-solving can not only occur with children, but between adults, parents, and teachers, teachers and parents. I think that is also true for households with two parents. And it’s really important in this era. You know your spouse or whoever else is living in the house is doing the best they can. The demands that everyone is facing now is unprecedented, you know, working from home, having to figure out homeschooling, not having daycare, not being able to. I was on a call with a friend last night, and he was talking about how he’s such an extrovert and how hard it’s affecting his ability to be as motivated and energized as normal because he’s missing that part of his life. We’re all under tremendous stress, and this model can be applied in all relationships so you can problem-solve with your spouse, you can be empathic to your spouse. You can remember that they’re doing the best they can, just like you’re doing the best you can. And that might mean you might need to do what you described as Plan C. There might be some expectations right in your relationship that you guys need to let go of each other, you know, maybe it’s okay the dishes don’t get done on time. Maybe you divide and conquer in a different way. Maybe you just order out on Friday night instead of cooking. Really having empathy, support, and flexibility within the relationship can be important and will just there will be a trickle-down effect, and the kids’ ability to stay calm or what you’re describing is regulated because it will reduce the stress in the environment. And boy, is this environment stressful. There’s so much that we don’t know that’s going to happen. Right we’re talking about expectation setting. It’s like for this week, right? Who knows what’s going to happen next week? All the rules of the game are to change again, right? Who knows what this is going to look like?
Stuart: Exactly. Best laid plans. Well, thank you, Ben. Lucas, anything you want to share in our last minute here some parting words of wisdom for folks?
Lucas: Yeah, I think everybody be patient, be understanding, have that empathy the relationship’s going to be huge, and I honestly am really hopeful that because of the situation, having it be a necessity for us to be stronger communicators with families, that this will actually create more opportunity for us to have those better relationships just based off a necessity. I think in my mind as an educator; I’m at the school until five, six o’clock at night sometimes, and oftentimes I don’t have opportunities to connect with families. And I honestly feel like now, because of the situation we’re in, I might have a little bit more flexibility to make phone calls, to email, to do Zoom calls with families and do some more work with them, and hopefully provide some more resources. So be hopeful that wherever everybody is out there that they’ll have opportunities as well.
Stuart: Thank you, Lucas. And thank you, Divina, for your kind comments about this conversation, which we hope has been helpful for folks. Karen, I don’t want to leave you short here. You snuck your question in. I invited it, so I’m going to try to answer it super quickly. First of all, talk about empathy for kids under nine together 24/7. Oh my gosh. I feel for you already, but she’s asking a couple two of the four go from playing well together to all hell breaks loose in a split second. They use Collaborative Problem Solving after the fact, but often somebody gets hit before you can step in. Just make sure, Karen, that you’re not just doing what we call Emergency Collaborative Problem Solving, which is trying to sort it all out at the moment right after it’s occurred. But when the dust settles where people are not fighting with four kids under nine, you’re going to want to just like relax any moment you get to catch your breath. But, try to grab a couple of minutes to have a proactive conversation with those two, if not all four, to do a mini Group Plan B discussion where you simply notice what’s happening, and you try to gather information about why it goes from playing nicely to all hell breaking loose. You’ll get a better read on what the specific triggers are and how you might be able to address them.
All right. On that note, we’re going to wrap things up, but I do also want to let people know that we do have a lot of other ways we can help you all online here. So teachers and parents, or anyone else for that matter, we invite you to consider our online training, which I’ve typed into the chat window here. These are intensive training where you can learn all about Collaborative Problem Solving; four afternoons a week on Zoom, it’ll be your own remote learning. And parents specifically, if you are interested in learning Collaborative Problem Solving along with other parents in a supportive environment, we have online parent classes. Those links are in the chat window for folks. Visit us at thinkkids.org. Lucas, thanks so much for being a part of our certified community and joining us today to share your experiences as a parent and an educator. Hallie, Ben, thank you for joining us as well.
But most importantly, thanks to all the attendees, we do hope this is helpful. We wish you the best of luck with this very uncertain year. And as everybody said, be kind to yourself, be kind to those around you, remember we’re all doing the best we can under very challenging circumstances. Good luck and take care, folks. Thank you, thank you.
Edited for clarity.
It’s mid-summer, and for many kids, this means a well-deserved break from school. If you look closely, a typical school day involves hundreds of expectations! Think about all the things your child has to do from the time they wake up until the time they go to bed. Wake up, get dressed, eat breakfast, brush teeth, pack a backpack, get to school on time, pay attention in classes, raise hand before speaking, get along with peers and teachers… and that’s only a sampling of the first half of the day! There are lots of opportunities for your child to struggle or experience success. As many of you know, some kids have an extra hard time with the day-to-day demands of school. And with COVID-19 impacting the school environment, there have been even more stressors for students to navigate over the past year. Has your child struggled? Let’s look at some strategies you can put in place now that may help reduce those struggles when school starts up again in the fall.
Look Backward for Clues. What school-related things were hard for your child last year? Think back, and make a list. You will probably be able to identify predictable patterns of things your child had difficulty with. Did they struggle with attending class? Or maybe they attended, but they struggled to participate? Maybe there were certain subjects they had a harder time with. Perhaps there were a lot of arguments about math homework. Maybe they had meltdowns whenever there was a science test. Or maybe it depended on the type of assignment. Maybe writing and reading went well, but they struggled with group projects. Or perhaps the schoolwork was fine, and the social aspects of school were hard for them. Did they struggle with making or keeping friends? Was bullying an issue? All of these clues can help us understand common sticking points that might come up again next year. When you’ve clearly identified them, you will be able to make a plan to address them before they come up again!
Plan Ahead. Make a point to talk with your child about school-related issues before the year starts. Work together to identify ways to reduce those issues before they happen. For example, if your child struggles to focus on that math homework, sit down and talk about it together. Ask them what makes it hard to focus on it. Listen with empathy (see #5). And then together, figure out a way to make it easier to concentrate during homework time. What would help? What are their ideas? Working with your child to build a plan is a great way to empower them, and it can be great for your relationship!
Think about Skill vs. Will. At Think:Kids, we believe all young people are doing the best they can with the skills they have at any given moment. To navigate day-to-day situations, kids (and all humans, really) need the kinds of skills that help us communicate, focus, adapt, handle our feelings, and interact with others in a positive way. Challenging behavior, such as skipping school, having meltdowns at homework time, getting in fights on the playground, or talking out of turn during class, are all signs that a child is struggling with these kinds of skills. The behavior is really just the tip of the iceberg. Try to look beyond it and instead focus on the day-to-day situations that lead to the behavior, remembering that if they could do well in those moments, they would. That mindset alone can help! Talking collaboratively with your child will help build those skills!
Consider Going Beyond Rewards and Consequences. Let’s say your child struggles to get any grade higher than a “B.” Does it help if you offer them a reward for every “A” they earn? If so, that’s great! But if not, you may need a different strategy. It’s possible that all the rewards in the world won’t bring the grades up because earning the grade would require skills the child doesn’t currently have. Sometimes this means we need to adjust our expectations a little bit. It also means we need to help differently. Olympic athletes want to earn gold medals, but just wanting the gold isn’t enough to ensure they’ll get it. They need coaching, practice, and support. They need help working on the hard parts. When rewards and consequences aren’t working, they can actually backfire by decreasing motivation, making kids feel like failures, and causing them to give up. But when kids are provided support with things that are hard for them, they tend to feel more successful, more understood, and more capable.
Remember, Every Child is Unique. One size does not fit all. Different kids need different things. Sometimes this means adjusting expectations accordingly. Perhaps one of your children is very ambitious about school and feels ashamed when they don’t get perfect scores. Meanwhile, your other child says they don’t care about school and refuses to study at all. The needs of these two children different, and so to provide the best support, you will need to approach them differently.
Listen with Empathy. In Collaborative Problem Solving, we find that empathy is not agreeing or disagreeing with someone; it’s about understanding where they are coming from. Listen and validate your child’s point of view, even if it’s different from your point of view. Let’s say your child struggles to participate in art class. Perhaps you think art is fun, so attending art class should be easy. Why can’t they just do it! But for your child, art is really stressful, and the class is too noisy, and the assignments are confusing. Listening and treating their concerns with value will do wonders for the parent-child relationship!
Here’s to a relaxing, collaborative summer!
Learn more about Collaborative Problem Solving and classes for parents >>
May 26, 2021
J. Stuart Ablon & Michelle Millben, Esq., Founder of Explanation Kids.
Over the last year, adults have been faced with talking to kids about a pandemic that changed how we live and go to school, a presidential election and the insurrection that followed, and the series of cruel reminders of the deadly presence of racism in our world. Fortunately, many organizations have stepped in, providing guidance about how to talk to kids about such challenging topics. What seems to be missing from this dialog is how to listen to kids during deeply scary, troubling, and traumatic times.
As adults, when we are scared, confused, or angry, we strive for some sense of control. We feel more in control when we have words packaged nicely to pass along to our kids. But this often leads to our conversations with kids devolving into lecturing without allowing space to listen. Every parent has been there—talking away and knowing that kids are tuning out.
Indeed, getting our kids to listen to us is a big hurdle. The challenge is even greater in the digital age as kids are doing more listening and thinking about what is happening around them in the world. Kids are gaining more access to information and misinformation from news cycles and in our communities. Kids, even as young as Pre-K age, internalize much of this information, yet often have a hard time expressing and processing what all of these big issues mean to them. Instead of making assumptions about what kids have heard, seen, and what they think and feel about these events, it is in these times that they need the listening ear of adults perhaps more than any wise words.
Parents and educators have shared with us some of the questions that their kids are asking. What is evident from their conversations is this: The hard work of listening is tough, confusing, and at times heartbreaking. However, kids are leaning on adults to take an interest in what is worrying them.
For example, one parent shared that her 6-year-old son thinks that the police are now the bad guys and he cannot tell the difference when playing “cops and robbers.” Another parent shared that after seeing a picture of George Floyd, his 8-year-old son could not tell whether George Floyd was white or Black. His son said, “He is brown, Dad. Not peach like me. So is he white or Black?”
A mother shared that her 7-year-old daughter raised an obvious but stumping question: “If Mr. Floyd was telling the officer that he could not breathe, why didn’t he get up and let him breathe?” And another 9-year-old kid saw news coverage of the protests from last summer and asked her mother “Why are you not doing anything like protesting or making signs?” Others questions ranged from “Why wasn’t George Floyd treated fairly?” or “Why were those people looting?” or “I don’t understand why everyone is upset.”
When kids are encouraged to share their feelings, they may express anger, upset, and disappointment, and they may even say what seems like the wrong thing. We may feel shocked or uncomfortable by such questions. However, we must challenge ourselves to listen.
How can we equip ourselves to handle these kinds of observations and comments? How can we listen effectively when we are upset and often taken off guard in conversations? How can we develop a healthy practice of allowing kids to lead the conversation from time to time? Thankfully, active listening can actually be reduced to using four “tools” that are relatively easy to learn, remember, and practice:
Listening to our kids is a powerful tool for their development. Not only is being heard reassuring and calming, but from a neurobiological perspective it literally puts kids in a position to hear adults and what we have to share. This is not some touchy-feely theory; it is a truth reflected in how our brains process information: When we are upset, worried, or scared, the smartest part of our brain is less accessible. If, however, we can regulate our emotions, we have more access to the higher-level thinking skills involved in listening, processing, and understanding. Empathic listening is regulating. When we do that first, our kids will hear a lot more of what we have to say. Stated differently: If we want our kids to listen to us, we need to start by listening to them.
A special thank you to Michelle Millben for co-authoring this article.
Michelle Millben, Esq. is a former White House, Justice Department, and Capitol Hill official and Founder of Explanation Kids.
This article originally appeared in Psychology Today.
One of the topics that comes up a lot is when people want to solve the behavior rather than the problem. For example, a parent came to us recently and said “Okay I really want to work on her attitude. She is defiant about everything. How are we going to get her to be more agreeable?” While we agree that an ultimate goal is more harmony at home or agreeableness, you can’t “problem solve defiance.” What you can do is look at the situations in which she is defiant and pick one or two to work on. When you solve the problems specific to those situations, you are reducing the defiant behavior–not to mention working on the skills that likely led to the behavior in the first place! So in this case the parent said, “Well, meals are a nightmare, she won’t eat anything I make.” Okay, so let’s choose a particular meal time and have a Plan B conversation around that. This parent choose the most frustrating one for her–dinner time. So then the next step is to talk to her daughter well away from the dinner hour–proactive Plan B.
Parent: “Hey, I noticed when we sit down for dinner it doesn’t tend to go so well sometimes? What’s going on with that?”
Child: “I hate eating dinner with you.”
Parent: “What do you mean?” (taking a deep breath to avoid being furious and saying something flip) “Look, I really want to understand what happens that makes us both miserable?””
Child: “I have no clue….the food sucks.”
Parent: “What don’t you like about it?”
Child: “I don’t know. I just don’t feel like eating that junk!”
Parent: “Well, there’s probably a nice way to let me know that, but what I’m really interested in is whether its that you don’t like what
I cook or that you just don’t feel like eating?”
Child: “I’m just not hungry for anything and then you are all over me that I don’t like your cooking and I can go cook for myself blah
blah blah.”
Parent: “Okay, okay I know I can be short and cranky after work, but my feelings are hurt when you shove away the plate of food I have
made. So you are telling me it’s NOT what I cook it’s that you just aren’t hungry around 7?”
Child: “ Well when I got home from school at 5 I am starving…”
By this time, they’ve come to a better understanding of why the child is refusing to eat and being rude about it (by identifying the
concerns behind the behavior). Now they are poised to be able to work out a solution around the problem of “not eating dinner“ which in turn will certainly decrease the defiant behavior.
The moral: don’t go after the behavior directly – go after the problem leading to the behavior! Solve that problem and the behavior will improve.
A parent presents a struggle he is having with his daughter. Many times, not always, his daughter refuses to wear her seat belt in the car and she’ll say it with a glint in her eye and a smile on her face. “Nope, dad I am not going to wear it.” She is 8 years old so its safe to assume she knows wearing a seat belt is required and dad has stated that repeatedly. Dad says, “Don’t tell me she isn’t intentionally trying to get me going? She knows how dangerous it is, that it’s the law, and it makes me furious when she won’t put it on. I just blow. She’ll even buckle it right up and then when she catches my eye in the mirror unbuckle it and laugh. What the heck is that?”
Sure, kids can sometimes poke fun or do something to make you mad on purpose. Hiding your cell phone, swearing at you, or throwing something are not always chronic problems and can be a rare, random, intentional event. The question becomes if she does it repeatedly, and you blow up repeatedly, and she is given all sorts of consequences repeatedly – why does it keep happening? At Think:Kids we don’t think that kids get their jollies by repeatedly battling with you, although it may feel that way for the parent. We believe if they she could do it a better way she would but she doesn’t know that better way.
So in the case of the seat belt situation there was something the child was not able to say or do adaptively so she kept doing something maladaptive which was refusing to buckle in. We of course encouraged the father to start by talking to his daughter away from the car when the seat belt issue was not imminent. In talking to his daughter several times (the first couple didn’t yield much) he learned that his daughter is furious at him because he and his wife are recently divorced and the girl always feels she is being dragged from house to house, and the car has become an unhappy place that represents the split up. So what skills might this girl lack? The skills to identify or articulate her feelings, shift gears with frequent transitions during the week, handle ambiguity and uncertainty, and seek attention in an appropriate way to name a few perhaps! Of course, many young kids might not have the skills to handle a difficult circumstance like this and might as a result act in similar ways, but the lesson here is that no end of consequences would fix this problem or even help identify it.
Moral:
Sometimes it feels intentional and manipulative when a child’s behavior is annoying, but remember that often buried beneath the behavior is the truth that if the child could behave more adaptively they would…BUT THEY DON’T HAVE THE SKILLS to handle what the world has thrown their way!
This is a guest blog post by Certified Trainer, Randy Jones.
Looking back I can now see that my families’ expedition into Collaborative Problem Solving actually began over two decades ago.
My wife and I have provided services to those living with cognitive disabilities for over 20 years now. In the beginning we worked with developmentally challenged adults and later began working with mental illness.
We have seen the systems and models of care evolve over those years, bringing with it improved quality of life for everyone. I went from providing services that “protected” the community to actually assisting people in overcoming difficulties in living and achieving efficacy. In the beginning of our careers a good day was defined by little to no negative events occurring with little concern for any practical skill building.
Over those years we have had the opportunity to provide services in many different programs and locations. We have changed locations, from Oregon to Nevada, and have worked in environments from one extreme to the other. We have been a mom and pops foster care home, we have built and operated a corporation with many homes and apartments and we have worked in secure lock down facilities for the adjudicated. We have worked as direct care, as “behavior specialists”, as consultants and as trainers.
During these times I have felt and experienced many different emotions and mindsets, including feeling burnout, overwhelmed, under-appreciated and superfluous. Often it seemed we were providing ineffectual services to people that didn’t want them anyway and then explaining why no “results” were achieved and brainstorming on how to get those served to “want and accept” the services.
In a field where five years is the expected length of most caregivers employment we have not only stayed engaged, but are still enthused to be able to provide support and assist people in overcoming the exact challenges that I assisted people with, in the very beginning of my career.
In the past mustering hope and encouraging others to do the same seemed to be the most difficult part of my day. Seeing how easily people can meet the criteria for a Mental Illness and how difficult it is to become “recovered”( in fact there is no criteria for being recovered), has ended the desire to help in many care givers.
CPS has provided the frame work in which we may articulate to everyone the true nature of being mentally disabled. I see it as the calculus of the human mind. Just as Newton gave us a means to explore our world, a way to disseminate information into its basic elements, understand the order and process of those elements, and then manipulate those elements to produce a desirable outcome; CPS does this for our minds and strengthens those elements through practice.
My family has grown over these years as well; we now have a son that operates his own foster home serving developmentally delayed with a focus on Autism. Our daughter operates a foster home serving those living with mental illness, our nephew and niece in-law are caregivers. My wife and I assist, consult and train caregivers, providers, government agencies and businesses.
Today each of us will tell others when they ask what we do for a living that, we get to assist people in overcoming challenges and difficulties in their own lives. We “get to”. After all these years we are still enthused.
We are enthused because we have seen CPS work for those whom practice it. We have witnessed people overcome their disabled status. Though they may always live with a disability they are no longer disabled. This is CPS.
The journey to this point was not always (if ever) easy. Changing minds is the most difficult undertaking a person can embark upon. Because as people, we do well when we can, and we also believe that what we are doing is well.
Just as in the early days of my career, I was doing well by protecting the community from potential impacts that those I served may cause. Thus, I spent a great deal of time proactively ensuring that the community was not negatively affected, meaning those I served were expected to follow rules, cooperate and comply with my decisions. I was very good at convincing those I served that they “wanted” to do as I directed. I was very good at “feel good” behavior plans and token economies that focused exactly on what would motivate each of those I served.
Still, our shift was less complicated than most, I think for a couple of reasons. Having already finished 16 years serving those with disabilities, having been trainers for most of that time as well, we had already stumbled onto a perspective based approach. When we were introduced to CPS our culture was fertile soil.
Secondly, our programs are family operated. Though we have employees, we use CPS as our HR model (Human Resources) and our relationship to each person becomes priority, much as it is in my family. With the mindset that all problems will eventually need to be worked out, less time is spent on deciding consequence and punishment for missed work expectations and more on building systems that foster accountability and skill development. This is CPS.
Though implementing CPS into our program had exceeded all expected times, it was still a rigorous process. We had our token economy that evolved into a “talking point” program with no focus on providing motivations. We definitely had our growing pains as each new situation arises and we practiced viewing it through a CPS lens. I believe that each of us had our own moment of realization that CPS is the way.
Mine came when I was serving an individual that began smoking in his room while living with me in my foster home. After reporting the event his support team reacted like most would, informed him that was against house rules, unsafe and unwise, and etc. We tried threats like your rep will instruct the program to divvy out your smokes and finally threatened to evict.
Staying true to our faith that we all are doing the best we can given the challenge we face and the skills we posses, we decided not to evict and rather we would discuss it as a matter of program……”so I noticed that sometimes you decide to smoke in your room, can we talk about that?”. We had already accepted that this person has difficulty with expressing himself, so we approached each event as an opportunity to practice those skills.
Despite some serious misgivings from certain supports and feeling as though “nothing was being done to address” the behavior, we were able to eventually discuss with the person that he felt belittled and disrespected, so he didn’t care to explain why he was smoking. After addressing these concerns we realized that he was using the best solution he had, as the house rules stated the doors were to be locked after 11pm and caregivers did not want him going out.
Again, I had to bring out my CPS lens and this time point it at the house rules. The homes rules were mostly agreed upon by the residents, but why 11? After a few plan b’s with everyone it was concluded that; the doors were only locked to help people feel safe, one person in particular. The final solution was the smoker could smoke when he liked and would try to remember to lock the door when he came in, and the scared persons solution was a lock on her door with a peep sight.
Because we are family owned I could easily have the program provide the lock and install the peep sight. For $25.00 and some empathy, we were able to avoid evicting a person and starting a cycle all over again.
By the way, this person completed the program, moved into an apartment with supports that he later did not require. He now lives without caregiver support, is driving again, has gotten married and is taking care of his aging parents. This is CPS.
Collaborative Problem Solving has permeated every aspect of our lives and we are better for it. From communicating with each other and our children; to operating our business and interacting with our staff. We practice CPS and strive to use it when we are at our worst, because it builds our brains.
Most of our immediate family members are Tier 2 trained and are continuing on their course to becoming consultants and trainers. We are always interested in exploring new ways to spread the culture of CPS. For example, in order to develop her skills and learn to cope with possible resistance during trainings, my wife turned to the internet.
By reposting a viral video of a child during a “tantrum” and asking for a respectful debate, she was able to start a week long discussion from our local community as to the value of punishment and what it actually accomplished. She then addressed every post through a CPS lens and began to generate support for the philosophy.
We have since began work on our website to include a link to “The Viral Video of the Week” for each of us to switch off answering posts using our philosophy and practicing our skills. Imagine a world that everyone in the community used a CPS lens to solve problems.
Thanks for your time,
Randy Jones
https://www.thecheoregon.org
Jessica Lahey’s January 13th Parenting Blog post in the New York Times is an excellent example of what we call “conventional wisdom,” the common belief that when kids aren’t meeting our expectations, they are just trying to avoid something or get something. We get this message all the time, and it can make both kids and parents feel incapable.
At Think:Kids, we are trying to push parents, educators, and helping professionals to think more deeply about those situations in which a child isn’t doing what we asked. The child described in the article could do laundry last week but suddenly is jabbing at buttons and wailing that it is “too hard…” Could he have actually forgotten the order of buttons and need a patient refresher? Could he be nervous or distracted about tomorrow’s test, and this task, menial to you but new to him, suddenly seems overwhelming today? We contend that no child would choose to wail, flail arms, and be thought incompetent by his parents if he had the ability to meet the expectation calmly and competently. Research indicates that kids (and all of us!) seek autonomy, competence, and good relationships with others… In short, kids do well if they can!
A refreshing voice among the others in this article, Dr. Bryson calls for some perspective-taking and flexibility in cases like this. Kudos, we say! So how do we do that? One way is with Plan B. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this article, whether you agree or disagree; feel free to post them to our Facebook page.
RVTS South in Oslo, Norway interviewed Dr. Bruce Perry and Dr. Stuart Ablon as part of their 2018 Children’s Conference in October 2018. This interview is translated and excerpted from: RVTS Organization; Interview by Siri L. Thorkildsen
Dr. Bruce Perry of The Child Trauma Academy has worked for years with children who have experienced long-term, complex trauma and gross neglect. Dr. Perry has developed a neuro-sequential model that is based on the stresses the child has experienced. His model helps those impacted by trauma by understanding what brain functions have had been interrupted in development, and seeing their challenges in the context of when in life the trauma occurred.
Dr. J. Stuart Ablon in Think:Kids at Massachusetts General Hospital has researched how the Collaborative Problem Solving approach helps children – and adults – build good relationships, create security, and develop the brain. With this model the child and you problem-solve, together, through empathetic listening and cooperation. Dr. Perry and Dr. Ablon want to inspire helpers meeting with children who face challenges, and help provide tools and information that are developmentally beneficial for these children.
What is the most important message to those who are meeting with or are parenting children who are facing challenges?
Dr. Perry: “My main message is that you make a big difference. You play a big part, and it is so incredibly important that you are with these children. The most important thing to keep in mind is that, while it is difficult, these meetings will have a meaning and this will make a difference for these children. These meetings provide opportunities for neural pathways to be repaired and new pathways can be created.”
Dr. Stuart Ablon: “Sometimes a meeting is much stronger than you might even understand, even when the meeting lasts only a few seconds. These meetings can have a huge impact on development. Those who are in the main position to help these children are the ones who are most with them. At the same time, these adults are often times the ones who have the least resources, lowest pay, and hardest jobs. When they, in fact, have the most important job.”
Dr. Perry, you have said that love is the most important and strongest change agent. What is the meaning of this when working with children who are having trouble?
“When I talk about “love,” it’s because I want to recognize the emotionally-minded element that is about being able to stand the pressure at its worst. When you can recognize the child for who he or she is although he or she may be very challenging. It is the love that allows you to be present, attentive, thoughtful, and responsive in these healing moments.
One of the things we know is that being associated with someone is one of the most important things to be healed. Ideally, this means that someone shows you love. “Love” means so many things, and it has different meanings in different relationships. But, what I think is important in a healing relationship is that you look at the person in a positive way, no matter what happens. And that you want to be there for them, even if you may not understand them or know what to do. You show that you are there and that you do what you can to help. It’s love that has a real therapeutic effect,” says Perry.
“And it’s really hard to love a child when they behave at their worst. And that’s the biggest challenge, because it’s these kids who need it most. Unfortunately, their behavior makes it difficult because it’s typically viewed as reprehensible. Dr. Perry has helped us understand how this behavior is a result of trauma and this has given people an opportunity to look at these children and the behavior in a whole new light. This also helps change the attitude of the children they meet and meet them on a much more humane and kind level, which makes it possible to actually treat these children with respect – something they rarely experience, but is exactly what they need,” adds Ablon.
When you, Dr. Ablon, say, “Skill, not will,” that “children do as well if they can”: How do we combine that with Dr. Perry’s view of love?
“They are incredibly complementary,” says Ablon.
“Dr. Perry’s research shows that these children do not behave badly because they want to, they actually are doing as well as they can. If they could do well, they would do well. And if they’re struggling, then there is something in the way that makes them unable to do well. What Dr. Perry gives us is an understanding of why it is so, developmentally, while Collaborative Problem Solving provides some practical tools to do something about this,” explains Ablon.
“Yes, they fit like hand in glove because what we try to understand about the child is: Where are they in terms of development?” says Perry.
“Too often we have an expectation for the child based on age. But because of neglect, trauma, or other things that have stood in their way, they are often emotionally, socially and cognitively behind. It is a persistent mismatch that creates conflict, so the moment you can understand where your child is, in terms of development, you can actually meet the child at the right level. And if you use Collaborative Problem Solving, then we can meet the child where he or she is. Then we can create small, glorious doses with challenges that can help them succeed and get them into a good developmental path again. It’s really beautiful when you think of it!” explains Perry.
Why does the world need Collaborative Problem Solving?
“Many parts of the world still misunderstand why children do not behave well or why they do not do what we want them to do. As a result, we are not particularly pleased when it comes to children and youth who challenge us.
What our research shows is that challenging behavior is the result of lagging skills; not because they do not want to behave well. We see this reflected in flexibility, frustration tolerance and problem solving in the child. But this can be learned. And if we build the ability to cope with this, in a loving, understanding environment, we can facilitate development and reduce challenging behavior without having to resort to power and control – something we usually consider as a solution, when we face challenging behavior,” Dr. Ablon answers.
Is it always really so, that children are doing the best they can? Anyone who has experienced bedtime with young children may have other thoughts.
Dr. Ablon laughs, and answers that sometimes the will is not always in place. “But I do not always trust that adults understand the difference between will and skill, especially in the toughest moments when it is most important to understand the difference. Because in those moments we are angry, frustrated, stressed. You are tired yourself, have plenty to do. You may not be in the best mindset to decide if the child does not do what you say because it does not work, or because they simply don’t want to. So then it’s better to take the safest solution, namely to assume that the child is unable to do what you ask for. You do not lose anything by treating a child empathically with the understanding something they are we are asking them to do may be difficult for them. But treating the child as if it does not want to do as you ask, that sends you down a dangerous road. So it is always safest to assume “skill, not will.”
You work has revolutionized the subject and contributed to a paradigm shift, where we fundamentally change how we look at and relate to children who are having a hard time. What do you think of this?
“I think people realize that this change in how we look at behaviorally challenging children makes sense. But change is really difficult. How do we help a child’s brain heal and change? You also have to change the brain of the adult so we can think and behave differently around these children. All these adults are often stuck in a structure, in systems where we have done things in a special way for a long time. It requires a lot of restraint, work – and honestly, discomfort – to change this for us adults too,” Ablon answers.
“We have talked about these concepts for thirty years, but it’s only now that these are ideas are making their way into the professional life without too much resistance and negative reactions. So it takes time,” Perry adds.
“The more I do this work, the more I see that what we must help adults keep calm in difficult situations. Being regulated when the pressure is really on. It’s about the adults, and their ability to stay regulated. If we adults can stay regulated; half the job is done. Most of the time, it’s our own unregulated behavior that creates escalating behavior – and that is when we do not use “common sense” and we do not have access to our own thinking brain.
This is also where an understanding of the brain’s structure is useful. It helps us understand that our feelings and unregulated behavior “infect” others. Learning Collaborative Problem Solving provides concrete strategies that help us to retreat, self-regulate and re-enter the situation in a quieter way,” explains Perry.
Dr. Ablon agrees and emphasizes Dr. Perry’s work in connection to this principle. “Something I’ve always thought you’re doing in a wonderful way, Dr. Perry, is to emphasize that: If it is “contagious” to be unregulated, then the good news is that it is also “contagious” to be regulated. So if adults manage to keep regulated, we will help children regulate themselves too.”
As a psychologist specializing in working with kids and adolescents with very challenging behavior, I spend a lot of time thinking about how to help kids stay “regulated,” which in essence means calm in the midst of frustration or over-excitement. I have the great fortune of doing a lot of teaching with my good friend and colleague, Dr. Bruce Perry, who often reminds us that dysregulation is contagious! Nothing like a dysregulated kid to get the adults and other kids around them dysregulated too. As a parent or teacher, I’m sure you have experienced this firsthand. When a child becomes dysregulated, they invariably lose a slew of IQ points, and we are quick to follow. At that point, we then have two humans not operating at their best which can lead to some pretty ugly moments. It would stand to reason then that one of the best ways to keep kids calm is to remain calm ourselves. Easier said than done, right? Well, one of the most effective strategies isn’t what you think it is. It’s not deep breathing, mindfulness, or some other technique per se. It’s our mindset.
Mindset matters because how we think about things impacts how we feel about them. For example, if you believe that a child is purposefully escalating in order to try to get you to give in, then it makes sense that you would feel angry and resentful. And, of course, feeling angry and resentful breeds that physiological state we refer to as dysregulation. However, if on the other hand, you viewed the child escalating through a more compassionate and understanding lens, you would be less likely to escalate yourself. This is why we spend a lot of time teaching adults a basic philosophy that underlies all of our work: “Kids do well if they can!” This philosophy is simply meant to mean that if a child could do well, they would do well. If they could handle a situation without escalating, they would. No child wants to become dysregulated. It is not a lack of desire to remain calm that gets in their way. Rather, it is a lack of skill at being able to do so. Reminding yourself that dysregulation is a matter of skill, not will, may be the most effective way to help yourself stay calm when a child is struggling to do just that. We often encourage adults to view kids’ difficulties staying regulated as akin to a learning disability. This mindset also has the advantage of not only being more compassionate but also being more accurate! 50 years of neuroscience research has shown this to be true. Bearing this in mind will help you manage your own emotional reaction.
Teaching this mindset to adults caring for, teaching, and protecting people who exhibit some of the most challenging behavior in some of the most challenging places in the world has repeatedly shown dramatic results. So we know that focusing on your mindset can work in your home, classroom or workplace as well. The next time you feel yourself teetering on the edge of dysregulation, remember and repeat to yourself the simple mantras of “kids do well if they can” and “skill, not will.” And if you forget and lose your cool too, don’t be too hard on yourself. Adults do well if they can too!
As originally posted in: Psychology Today
Now that bullying prevention programs are required in our schools, students who are the victims of bullying are finally getting the empathy and attention they deserve. The work, however, shouldn’t stop there.
Behind most bullying programs is the fundamental assumption that students who bully are choosing to do so in order to get something they want, such as social status or attention, and that these students could behave more kindly if they wanted to. Because of this assumption, students who bully are frequently punished via exclusionary practices like detention, suspension, or even expulsion. The punishment, the logic goes, should teach bullies that their behavior leads to bad outcomes instead of good outcomes, and when they realize that, they will stop bullying and be kind instead. But if that logic is correct, why do bullies so often come out of detention, or return from suspension, only to bully again?
Research actually tells us that students who are aggressive, oppositional, or otherwise behave in difficult ways are actually doing the best they can with the skills they have. All of us would like to have social status and attention; students who bully are lacking the skills they would need to attain status and attention in adaptive ways—skills like emotion regulation, self-regulation, communication skills, and social thinking. As a result, they seek status and attention in ways that prove harmful to others. Yes, bullies would like to avoid detention and suspension, and they would if they could. But detention and suspension don’t teach skills; the bully returns with no more skills than she had when she left and so cannot behave any differently.
Fortunately, there are evidence-based approaches that help kids who exhibit challenging behavior build skills they lack, like self-regulation and social thinking skills that are linked to social aggression. Those approaches include things like Restorative Practices, Social Thinking, and our Collaborative Problem Solving model.
While not a popular view, bullies lack the skill, not the will, to behave better. If we want to effectively address bullying, we need to focus on helping bullies develop the skills they need to not bully. Our underlying assumptions about the cause of the bullying leads us to punish the bullies; ironically, it is only by having compassion and understanding for the bullies that we best help future students avoid being victims.
As originally posted in Psychology Today
As a child psychologist, who specializes in helping kids with challenging behavior, I hear how often we parents take the blame for our kids’ behavior, whether the behavior happens at home, at school or anywhere else. I can’t really blame folks for fingering parents because the blame should really reside with my field. Psychology and psychiatry has a long history of blaming parents (or more specifically, mothers!) for things we later learn they have less to do with than we thought. Take the example of what was referred to as the “schizophrenigenic mother” whose parenting style was thought to cause schizophrenia! Fast forward to the 21st century and we realize what an absurd notion that is (Neill, 1990). And there are examples that are just as astounding and have persisted even longer. The phrase “refrigerator mothers” was coined to describe cold, unempathic moms who were thought to cause ….. autism (Kanter, 1943)! Really. Of course, now we know that autism spectrum disorders are complicated neurodevelopmental challenges. Sorry moms for throwing you under the bus for decades!
My experience tells me that challenging behavior may be the latest example of the damage done when we inaccurately blame parents. We think that parents being passive, permissive and inconsistent leads to their children exhibiting challenging behavior because the kids learn that they can get things or get out of things by behaving this way. But is it really that poor parenting causes challenging behavior? Or is it actually the reverse – namely that challenging behavior causes us parents to look pretty bad?
Over the years in my clinical practice, I’ve noticed some patterns that suggest maybe the latter is more accurate. Many families come to see me for help with one of the children who exhibits severely challenging behavior, and I often observe that those very same families frequently have other children who not only aren’t particularly challenging, they are actually incredibly well-behaved! How do we explain that? Same parents, but different kids. I often say that if I could take a kid from my practice with very challenging behavior and transport them into the home of the ideal parents, those same parents quickly would start to look a lot less consistent and a lot more lenient. Likewise, show me a parent who is described as being too lenient and inconsistent and give them a really well-behaved kid and all of a sudden they will start to look a lot more consistent and less permissive. But unfortunately when we parents have well-behaved kids, we assume that it must be what we are doing that is working so well. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that probably has less to do with us as well! Easy kids are easy to parent. Kids with challenging behavior are really challenging to parent.
So who is really to blame then for challenging behavior? Or more accurately, what is to blame? Skills deficits – (Pollastri, 2019; Wang, 2018). Tons of research in the neurosciences have shown beyond the shadow of doubt that kids who exhibit challenging behavior struggle with skills in areas like flexibility, frustration tolerance and problem-solving. To be more specific and technical, they have a hard time with things like language and communication skills, attention and working memory skills, emotion and self-regulation skills, cognitive flexibility and social thinking skills.
So just like we’ve come to understand autism more accurately through a neuro-development lens, its high time to do the same when it comes to challenging behavior. Let’s learn from past mistakes and stop playing the blame game. Let’s start having empathy for parents whose job is already tough enough. They could use our support, not our judgment.
As parents, we hear a lot about the need to be consistent—consistent in how we treat each of our children and consistent with our co-parents as well. This emphasis on consistency goes back to the idea that kids are looking for some way to exploit a lack of consistency, and if we just toe the line without any exceptions it will lead to better behavior and compliance with our wishes. We also work hard to treat our kids the same so as to not engender any uprisings caused by a perceived lack of fairness, especially since the call of “that’s not fair!” is especially piercing to our adult ears. The same is true at school where teachers often work hard to achieve consistency for the same reasons but with perhaps even more urgency, given the dozens of kids they have to contend with all at the same time.
But is our striving for consistency effective or perhaps even misguided at times?
Parents with multiple children often remark on how different their children are—how they must have “come out wired differently.” I know this stands true for each of my three kids: same parents, same household, same siblings, even same schools and yet very different kids. So why would we ever try to parent or teach kids in the same way if they are so different? In fact, doesn’t treating every kid the same ensure that no one really gets what they need? You see, the fact that kids are so different is precisely why we should strive to do things differently with them. Different kids need different things. In fact, the only way to make sure that each child gets what they need is to give them different things.
We’ve learned this lesson over time in our schools. We used to expect that all kids should learn the same way and at the same pace. If they didn’t, we certainly didn’t want them getting in the way of the learning of the other students. Thankfully, we have realized over time that “differentiating” our instruction (customizing our teaching to the specific styles and needs of individual learners) was not only helpful but necessary, and that doing so helps us to reach all students most effectively. While we have come a long way in that arena, the notion of differentiating our discipline is still a tough reality for folks to accept.
In our schools, I see teachers worry that if they make exceptions or offer individualized support to certain students, all students will want those accommodations. I encourage them to think about behavior as if it were a learning issue. One would never hold back offering support to a child with dyslexia for fear that every student in the class would then claim to have dyslexia! And we would have no problem telling the other students that we only differentiate when needed. In other words, we give help where it’s needed but not where it isn’t! It’s time for us to do the same with behavior and discipline—to not be shy about doing different things for different students and being confident in our rationale for doing so.
Next time we hear “It’s not fair!” in our homes or classrooms, let’s respond with a very clear pronouncement, “Yes, it is. Because fair doesn’t mean equal. It means giving everyone what they need, and different people need different things.”
Let’s let go of one-size-fits-all parenting and teaching. Let’s embrace the messy, remarkable and exciting individuality of our kids and give each other the permission to respond differently to their needs and challenges.
As originally featured in Psychology Today